The workplace retirement plan industry’s premiere event is just days away, with top professionals set to descend upon Nashville April 7-9 for the 2024 NAPA 401(k) Summit.
We get a preview of the big event from two of the key people in charge of putting it together in Nevin Adams and John Sullivan, the former and current Chief Content Officers for the American Retirement Association.
In addition to highlighting some of the topics and key must-see sessions scheduled for the event, we’ll check in with Nevin about his “gradual retirement” and John about how he’s fitting into the big shoes left for him by Nevin.
Click to read the audio transcript here.
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Brian Anderson: [00:00:00] This is 401k Specialist Editor in Chief Brian Anderson and this is the 401k Specialist Podcast. We are just a matter of days away from the Workplace Retirement Plan Industry’s biggest event of the year, the NAPA 401k Summit, which will descend upon Nashville April 7th through 9th. This one’s shaping up to be one of the biggest and best yet, with tons of A list speakers covering some really important topics.
And it seems like just about everyone’s throwing a party in Music City on Monday during the event. To share what’s on tap at NAPA this year. We’ve got a couple of the key guys that are making it happen in the American Retirement Association’s Nevin Adams and John Sullivan, the former and current chief content officers at the ARA.
John, first off, welcome back to the very 401k specialist podcast that you started a few years ago.
John Sullivan: That intro is way too long, right? We’re gonna have to stop and start again. This is weird, wild stuff. I haven’t been on this side. I don’t think of any podcasts, let alone the one that I used to host.
So thank you for having me. This is great. [00:01:00]
Brian Anderson: Great. And, Nevin, it’s great to have you on here to tell us about the big event where you’ve long excelled as the master of ceremonies. Thanks for joining us today.
Nevin Adams: Appreciate the invite. We’re, uh, we’re very excited. We’re really looking forward to it.
It’s a, it’s a big thing every year. This is going to be the biggest one we’ve ever had.
Brian Anderson: Can you give us a kind of an overview of the scope of this year’s event? How many advisors and total attendees are you expecting? Are there still any hotel rooms left and anything else to note about bringing this circus to town?
Nevin Adams: It’ll be that for sure. You know, we’re past the, how many are you expecting number? We’ve, as of this morning, we were five shy of 2, 700 total attendees. So probably by now we’re over that. It’s just been that kind of year. We are half of that fully half of that as advisors. Um, it’s really incredible growth.
Even in the time I’ve been here, forget about the fact that the summit has been going on since I think 2000, so we’re creeping up on silver anniversary time. [00:02:00] Um, and as you might appreciate it, it’s, it’s hard to keep something like that going and growing and fresh. But,, man, we’ve, we’ve just been amazed by the turnout and the response this year.
When I first came here, uh, first year, we had 1300 in attendance and about a third of those were advisors. And we were very pleased and proud with those numbers at the time. But now we’re looking at twice more than, you know, we’ve more than doubled it and the advisor percentage has doubled as well.
So, um, you try finding an advisor focused event, retirement advisor, focused event that has half. Of the attendees being advisors. You just can’t.
Brian Anderson: Know that this is just a crazy amount of work for you and a whole bunch of other folks at NAPA. And I just want to tell you guys, we really appreciate all the hard work to create such a great industry event.
The session that typically kicks things off in a big way at the NAPA 401k Summit is from the “Hill to the Summit” with ARA CEO, Brian [00:03:00] Graff. I hear he’s going to be joined by some other big names. That’s correct. Yeah, go ahead, Nevin.
Nevin Adams: No, man, uh, Lisa Gomez is probably the one you would lead off with because of course, being the Assistant Secretary of Labor particularly given the fact that the, the new fiduciary rule, which we’re not calling the fiduciary rule anymore, but I forget what the name is.
John, John can maybe remind me, but anyway, what we all think of is is, uh, is that OMB. And, I doubt that we’ll know what it is by the time summer comes out, but I suspect we’ll be close enough that we’ll get some pretty strong hints from Mrs. Gomez. That’d be a good guess. And we’ve also got some insights from folks on the Hill, including Preston Rutledge, who used to be the Assistant Secretary of Labor. So that’s, that’s always good. It’s always fun when people who’ve been sort of in the know, get sort of outside of the confines and controls and strictures of their official duties where they [00:04:00] can actually give you some real insights in terms of what’s really going on and what it really means that the, you know when you’re in office, sometimes you just can’t.
John Sullivan: Well, I was given Brian, a little bit of grief yesterday when we were setting this up because he got Lisa Gomez for the podcast and I had tried forever to get Preston and he just said, no, I can’t my official capacity. It’s not something I’m going to do. So I leave. And of course, Brian gets it. So
Nevin Adams: I’m sure it has nothing to do with you.
John Sullivan: Sure. Thanks.
Nevin Adams: We didn’t get him on the cover of the magazine.
John Sullivan: We did. It’s true.
Brian Anderson: Hey, now, it’s no secret that, the 401k has been under attack lately from a handful of, well known economists, a few lawmakers, some of whom want to take away the tax breaks for 401ks and use that tax revenue that it would generate to prop up social security’s troubled finances.
There’s also been some recent talk about, encouraging companies to go back to offering defined benefit pension [00:05:00] plans. And some are supporting a bill proposed on Capitol Hill that would create a federally sponsored TSP like retirement plan that they think would help solve the coverage gap. I’m just kind of wondering how much attention will these kind of topics get during the summit and is there going to be any kind of a call to rally the troops or mobilize against any of these initiatives?
Nevin Adams: Well, I sure hope there will be. Um, you know, the, some of this is old news. Some of this we’ve heard before. In fact, I think the danger for people in our industry is you see something like this, um, you see, you know, professor Arducci has a new book out, so she’s out on book tour, I’ll talking that kind of stuff out and you’re like, yeah, yeah. You know, she’s been out there before. She’s been talking about this kind of stuff before. Um, she’s had these plans. She was going to be, President Hillary Clinton’s, right hand advisor and all this kind of stuff. And it never happened. And there’s a natural tendency, I think, therefore to say, this is just [00:06:00] another one of those.
We don’t have to pay attention, but I can tell you, we’ve got really good ears to the ground. This time really is different. I know a lot of people, as I said, it’s easy to look at this and say it never happened. So it never will. It will never will happen. But I can assure you this is serious.
And and this time coming around, you see folks going out of their way to say, Oh, no, we’re not. We don’t want to touch the existing 401 Ks. You all can keep those. That’s fine. Well, first off, that’s a new note. And it’s interesting that note is what’s coming up right now. You know, I’m not saying that they’re not telling it straight out, but I’m saying if you were skeptical about that, I mean, I think there’s a reason to be skeptical about it.
So yeah, I think you’re going to hear a lot of that from me. from the stage. There’s a lot of information that’s being put out. There’s a lot being said about the number of people who are saving and what levels they are. There’s the nonsense about how all the benefit is going to the higher income [00:07:00] people.
Um, this all bull hockey. What is, what is President Biden called? Malarkey. It’s all malarkey, because, you know, it’s, it’s really kind of distorted. And you heard some of that in the hearing last week where, Professor Ghilarducci is putting out some of her statistics that are in her book about the problems, if you will.
And the lady testifying from the Heritage Institute basically said, You know, no, that’s that survey. That’s people telling you what they have. It’s not what they actually have. I’m looking at actual data, actual administrative data of what people have the stuff they report to the friggin I. R. S. And it tells a completely different story.
And the only sad part of all that is when press to kind of reconcile those two, she basically said, you know, it’s all in the Internet. You could go look it up. And I’m like, Well, that’s Some of us will, some of us have, but, um, but most people won’t. And so, um, you know, what’s that quote from Mark Twain about a lie and how it gets halfway around the world [00:08:00] before the truth has a chance to put its shoes on.
So it’s an issue and it’s something people really do need to pay attention to. I wrote a column a couple of weeks ago, this whole thing about defined benefit plans being the. the, uh going to solve everything, you know, that’s believable for people who weren’t alive when there were defined benefit plans.
Unfortunately for some, I was, and I remember. And anyway, so yeah, it’s a big deal.
Brian Anderson: All right. You know, I know there’s too many to mention with so many great sessions, so many speakers, but, can you highlight a couple of the sessions or events that each of you are looking most forward to?
Nevin Adams: Oh, I’m gonna let John go first.
John Sullivan: Well, retirement income, I’m looking forward to peps. I’m definitely looking forward to the AI, anything on AI, you know, right now is pretty hot. So I’m definitely looking forward to that, uh, as well. Yeah, I’m definitely looking forward to our two keynote speakers, both through our future focused and so I think they’re really going [00:09:00] to deliver. So, yeah, but I mean, as you said, there’s a lot that we’re going to be there doing covering reporting on.
Brian Anderson: Nevin, are there a few that you’re looking forward to?
Nevin Adams: Well, I can’t believe John didn’t mention the live Nevin and Fred podcast session that we’re going to be doing. Uh,
John Sullivan: try to keep it a secret, man.
Nevin Adams: You know, I can only think it’s because he was knowing that I would say something about it.
John Sullivan: That’s exactly it.
Nevin Adams: But actually that will be, it’ll be actually the third year we’ve done it. I love doing this kind of stuff with Fred. I’m still in that camp of, my God, I can’t believe Fred Riesch actually wants to do a podcast with me. But that’s, you know, so that’s all really, really exciting. John hit a lot of the other topics, that are, I think all big.
We do have a couple that are emphasizing the shift underway between retirement and wealth management and how that’s all coming about, related to that, we’ve got something, uh, on managed accounts, but about half of the agenda at summit has always really been [00:10:00] about practice management, about. About ways, for the advisors who come to learn from, from their peers, have better ways to do things.
And we’ve got a couple of great panels on that, both in terms of building up the team, in terms of how do you attract and retain this new generation of advisors, we’re all worried that everybody’s getting old like me and. stepping off, and to do with something like that. Um, and I think, I think those really matter.
The things that John mentioned, they’re all there and they’re all important because their trends are things that are in the environment around us. In fact, our two keynotes, one of them is going to talk a lot about A. I. And how that’s transferring things. And the other is going to talk about the future of wealth management because honest to God, it looks different then it has for this current generation. And you’ve seen the reports lately, supposedly. I hope my kids aren’t listening. They say that the boomers is going to be leaving a lot of money behind. So that will be a new dynamic, but, me, I’m planning to spend it all.
Brian Anderson: I also saw something this week where, uh, there’s a new trend of boomers moving in with their [00:11:00] millennial children.
Nevin Adams: Not, not well, maybe, but not, I don’t think, I don’t think that I’m more likely to get the move coming this way, but.
Brian Anderson: We’ll see. Well, I have no doubt that this year’s event is going to be epic. And, uh, I for one, I’m really looking forward to heading to Nashville, which has really emerged as a great conference destination.
But, now I want to move on to a slightly different topic and, Nevin, I’ve got to ask, this isn’t a complaint in any way, but it, it doesn’t seem like to a lot of us in the industry that you’re taking much time to enjoy your own retirement, All the columns and articles, all the work you’ve been doing on the summit, of course, and the Nevin and Fred podcast, your Tuesday touchpoints.
Tell us about how this gradual transition is going.
Nevin Adams: Well, I have been accused pretty readily or routinely about not understanding the concept of retirement. On the other hand, I also keep reading that all these people who like just go from working to like doing nothing at [00:12:00] all. In short order, they’re You know, in pretty desperate social straits.
So I think I’ve kind of missed this nice balance out. I mean, the reality is these days I get to work with the things that I like doing and that I have an affinity for, and I’ll let John deal with all the crap. Uh, and, and, you know, there’s, there’s a lot of that. I mean, you know, when you talk about, putting together awards and doing the nominations and reviewing the product, all that kind of stuff.
I mean, and a publication every quarter trying to cut means, you know, Brian coming up, what, what’s the cover going to be? Um, and all that kind of stuff. I mean, so I don’t have to worry about that anymore. I get to let John deal with that kind of stuff. So I’ve always had a real affinity, For, trends, but also the litigation stuff.
And so most of my writing lately has been litigation. Sadly, the problem with my retirement is there’s been so much litigation. I can’t get a break, just have to keep up with it. But there’s, but there’s a lot of emerging trends in the [00:13:00] litigation that I think are important. And, um, even in cases that wouldn’t seem to apply to most people, I think.
I think there are lessons to be learned, which is one of the reasons we keep doing that. But, um, but the bottom line is, um, my retirement is really nice. I highly recommend it. I highly recommend it.
John Sullivan: What’s your biggest misconception?
Nevin Adams: What can you not expect?
Well, if you get around things like, you know, I found some fairly nasty surprises with Medicare, which I’ve written about ’cause of course, with the thing I am, I get to write about everything. But , because I think most of us who worry about retirement, there’s that kind of concept that we might understand. I mean, I might be very conversant with things like, you know, the 4 percent withdrawal rule and asset allocation and target date funds and all that kind of stuff so that I can manage my retirement portfolio, if you will.
But we don’t spend a lot of time on things like Medicare. And when you get to, you know, [00:14:00] 65, certainly when you quit working, Medicare is it. And, We’ve got a session on Medicare at four weeks, not because I put it forward, but because it’s out there. And so, as I said, I , I think that is the kind of thing, um, we chose to relocate, a little earlier than we had initially planned and that has kept us pretty busy also, but it’s also been good.
But my biggest surprise about retirement is I’m having trouble setting aside time to just read junk. Again, if things would slow down, if we’d quit having things like secure 2. 0, if we’d quit having, you know, crazy, legislation out there, if we’d quit having like new fiduciary rules, when we’re still trying to get our arms around the old fiduciary rules, then, then it would be easier for me.
So everybody, please. Can you help Nevin have a better, more restful retirement, quit changing things.
Brian Anderson: There’s too much news out there. I totally hear that. Jeez. And, John, obviously we certainly missed you here at 401k [00:15:00] specialist after you got the call up to the big leagues. You don’t know, John and I have been good friends and worked together for a lot of years.
So more than a year in now, how’s it going for you as chief content officer for ARA?
John Sullivan: It’s good. It’s um, I thank goodness that, that Nevin has chosen the retirement track that he is, has chosen because I don’t think I could do it without him. I’d be drowning right now. Um, you know, we all know that Nevin is very prolific when it comes to his writing, but just behind the scenes, how much there is to do.
I would say it’s kind of drinking from a fire hose. So I’m very, very thankful that he’s still around and kind of show me the way here. But yeah, it’s been great. I mean, it’s intense. Anything worth doing is difficult, right? But you know, the ARA just incredibly effective organization, something that I didn’t realize just how effective until I started here.
So, we’re doing good stuff and it feels good to be a part of that. Really good to be a part of that. So, so far, so good. I’m enjoying myself.
Brian Anderson: Fantastic. Alright, thanks so much to John Sullivan and Nevin Adams for [00:16:00] joining us today on the 401k Specialist podcast and I’m looking forward to seeing you guys in Nashville.
You too, Brian. Definitely see
John Sullivan: you there. We’ll see you there. Thanks.
Brian Anderson: Thanks.
Veteran financial services industry journalist Brian Anderson joined 401(k) Specialist as Managing Editor in January 2019. He has led editorial content for a variety of well-known properties including Insurance Forums, Life Insurance Selling, National Underwriter Life & Health, and Senior Market Advisor. He has always maintained a focus on providing readers with timely, useful information intended to help them build their business.
